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Getting at the sump and crankcase while on the car?

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RS Tom-Hundred
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Getting at the sump and crankcase while on the car?

Postby RS Tom-Hundred » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:20 pm

After a little bit of advice about the sump and the crankcase section on the botoom of our engines please?

As most of you will know, I had the engine out last year to have the crank reground and new bearing put in etc. Since the car has been back on the road, the sealant i used to reseal the full length crankcase section and also the front oil sump section hasn't been up to par and it leaks oil. I have lived with topping the oil up regularly for all this time but this year now the weather is better, I want to get these two sections back off and reseal them with proper RTV sealant.

These two bits by the way:

Bottom, front oil sump/pan
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Crankcase bit above this (full length of engine)
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(this photo is taken with engine on a stand and flipped over so from the underside)

I had a look underneath recently and got to thinking about saving myself a load of time and doing this job with the engine still in the car. Will save the labour intensive task of removing all the pipes, cables, ancillaries and phsically removing and replacing the engine.

This is my rough plan and was hoping you guys could give me any pointers or whether there was anything I had missed that will stop me doing this easily please? :)

1. Remove the oil sump pan.

2. Undo and remove the nuts for the engine mounts which sit inside the cross member/beam.

3. Put thick, strong wood across the flat section where the sump was mounted and jack the engine and gear box etc all up as high as they will go until it contacts the under side of the body in the tunnel (should get a couple of inches probably.

4. Suspend the engine and gear box on either a crane or on a wing mounted beam etc.

5. Unbolt the cross member/beam from suspension and body etc and unbolt the steering rack from the steering column so that I can lower the cross member and steering rack down out of the way.

6. Unbolt and manoeuvre to remove the crankcase section.

7. Remove the old sealant and apply new RTV sealant to the crankcase section edges. Apply new RTV sealant to the edges and refit the crankcase section back to the underside of the engine.

8. Repeat steps 2-5 in reverse basically.

9. Remove old sealant from the oil pan and apply new RTV sealant to the edges and bolt it back up.

10. Have a beer and breathe a sigh of relief that it all went well and I didnt have to take the engine out.


How does that sound? Now I know it wont be as simple and straight forward as I have made it sound but I'm hoping it wont be too bad?

Only potential extra work I thought of is that where the crankshaft seals fit into housings etc, can they all stay on the car when I remove the crankcase sections or are they fixed to it (I cant quite remember.

Any other potential issues let me know or lets discuss them now please :)

Cheers in advance :)

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Tosh21
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Re: Getting at the sump and crankcase while on the car?

Postby Tosh21 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:21 pm

I had a similar thought when i thought my big end was knocking. dont see why it wouldnt work. if you craned it at the front of the engine and unbolted the mounts while leaving the box mount in it will just tilt out the way and you can drop it all out.. to be fair you probably dont even need to tilt the engine, as long as theres a crane or something holding it from above you can pull the bottom out, if you can jack it up enough ofcourse!

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RS Tom-Hundred
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Re: Getting at the sump and crankcase while on the car?

Postby RS Tom-Hundred » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:52 am

Cheers Tosha :) That was my thinking too.

Just trying to think of the best place to attach onto to hold the engine? When I lifted it out before I only had a limited few eyes and we ended up bolting them to the engine and using rope because I wasn't confident that using the chain wouldn't catch the head and damage something when the tension went on for the lift. The rope was run between the eyes 4 or 5 times so was plenty strong enough to lift in the end. If I can find suitable mounting points and use the chain this time that will be preferable :) Any suggestions? Bearing in mind that I'm trying to get away with unbolting as little as possible from the engine if I can help it? :)

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Tosh21
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Re: Getting at the sump and crankcase while on the car?

Postby Tosh21 » Tue May 03, 2016 8:36 pm

We used to use rope at Prodrive to lift the world's heaviest v12s out, it's plenty strong enough. I'd just do the same as last time, you know it works!

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Re: Getting at the sump and crankcase while on the car?

Postby RS Tom-Hundred » Fri May 06, 2016 9:57 am

Cheers Tosha! :)

Just for future reference for you guys, I can confirm that this can be done and it is way quicker and easier than taking the engine out!

As above really, I removed the nuts holding the engine mounts onto the cross member then jacked the engine/gearbox up as high as it would go with two jacks (one on the gearbox and one on the flat section of the crankcase/large sump once I had removed the small oil sump)

I left the gearbox jack in then I suspended the engine as a safety from a pole on the wings (or you could use a crane but the legs will impede access) so I could remove the second jack on the engine.

I undone the bolt on the steering rack yoke then dropped the cross member and steering rack down. NOTE: The steering column must be on a telescopic shaft because this followed the rack down and the shaft never split from the yoke in the end so that was handy.

Then with all the bolts and nuts (21 in total!) holding the crankcase/large sump on took off it will drop down. You need to lower the crossmember and rack down a long way if you want to fully remove the crankcase/large sump out fully. Also remove your spark plugs and turn the crank by hand with a 19mm socket and bar so that the webs of the crankshaft hang down the least and then you should be able to manoeuvre it out without catching anything.

Once the new sealant was on the faces, refitting it is the opposite or removing it really :)

The only pain in the arse job is two of the bolts holding it on are cap bolts at the flywheel end and are hidden inside if you leave the gearbox on the engine (I did). You need a very long (circa 110mm) 5mm allen key to get at them through two small holes in the casing. (as it happens, my casing was broken here where someone has either caught the car on something in the road or if they have had the engine out before and dropped it on something maybe? But even without this broken off, there seems to be two proper cut outs in the casing for the allen key. I used a standard allen key and then an adjustable on the cranked section to get them undone. When refitting, this is even more of a pain as the bolts with included washers wont pass through the cut outs so they need to be in before hand! I got round this by supergluing the washers to the sump casing so they would hang in the right place and then when its all lifted in and held on a nut the other end, you can carefully slide the allen key in and start the bolts off while they are held there ;)

Few photos to show what I mean

Small sump off
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The two troublesome bolts down the tiny cut out for the allen key
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Jacking up the engine from the sump side (I also did this with another jack on the front of gearbox after)
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Supporting the engine on the homemade bar
(eyelet fixed to the chunky piece just in front of the exhaust manifold by the bottom long bolt which passes through it into the head [or maybe the block - cant remember how low it fixes])
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This is the yoke for the steering column onto the rack that I undone expecting the splines to slide out when the rack dropped with the crossmember but the column must have extended as it didn't so you shouldn't have to undo this anyway.
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Unfortunately no photos of me sliding the casing out cos I had my hands full but here is the crankcase/large removed and the faces cleaned up for new sealant
Underside:
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Top/engine side
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This is a photo of the two cap bolts, with the washers glued to the casing. It is upside down n this photo but when rotated and ready to lift back in, the bolts hang down without falling out because the threads are bigger than the washer ID, allowing you to keep them in place and then get the allen key through the cut out again to tighten ;)
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Also a sneaky test fit of my C West bumper while I had the OE one off - needs a repair anyway but the fit didn't look too bad with a few minor tweaks needed :)

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Tosh21
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Re: Getting at the sump and crankcase while on the car?

Postby Tosh21 » Sat May 07, 2016 5:49 pm

Dam what a painful job! Bumper looks sweet!


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