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The Turbocharger vs Supercharger debate

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Dan
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The Turbocharger vs Supercharger debate

Postby Dan » Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:58 pm

So i have been doing a lot of research this week about adding some extra grunt to my motor and have been thinking more about going down the s/c route. The Blitz compressor system works out at 2600 delivered excluding intercooler(still awaiting price from Nengun). But i think ill need to upgrade the clutch and ECU too, to get the most out of it. It seems like the easiest most reliable option, maybe not the most powerful one

As for turbo's i was looking at the Trust - Greddy - Turbo Kit - Bolt On, which is about 1600 from Nengun but i think this is without some essentials such as intercooler, ecu and blow off valve. so add all those in for about another grand.

And then thinkning about getting these mods insured! You can a
call a supercharger a compressor system, but only one thing u can call turbo!

So im really just looking for the easiest cheapest way to add a bit more power and still keep the car relatively affordable to run and easy to drive.

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Postby Noel » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:15 pm

Hi Dan,

|Did you not get a reply from Nengun yet? I asked them about the greddy turbo and he got back to me today..... turbo is only for manuals( where have i heard this storey before!)

Anyway how do you know the inter-cooler is not included? it's in the bloody picture on their website... thats false advertising :roll:

Seems i can get a blitz compressor to fit the auto but there is a condition i heard from a guy in Singapore that the charger requires 98ron minimum, which is dis-hearting....

Also he told me that for the charger to work properly you have to send your ECU away to japan to get a triggering circuit put in to suit the charger and they also adjust the rev limit and they remove the factory speed limit all at the same time...

I was asking if they could map for 95ron and he told me he wasn't sure as the charger needed minimum 98ron...

btw when you click on the picture of the blitz compressor system on the nengun website it clearly shows an inter-cooler.... are you saying that this is not included?

Almost had the wife persuaded to let me get a cheap turbo.... now i have to start all over again with a bloody supercharger... :D

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Dan
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Postby Dan » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:22 pm

Hers the reply i got from them:

Hi Dan,

Thanks for your enquiry.

More information is available from Blitz here:
http://www.blitz.co.jp/products/compres ... or-kit.htm
http://www.blitz.co.jp/new-product/comp ... system.pdf

Note: the intercooler is purchased separately, we can have this added to the website as well if you would like.

Unfortunately we don't have any more specific details than that provided by Blitz on their website and below:
http://www.blitz-uk.co.uk/Product-181.aspx

We have sold one of the Celica kits in the past and they are a fairly simple bolt on kit, but obviously due to the nature of the change the best performance is gained after installing aftermarket engine management and other supporting mods.

Hope that helps. :evil: :twisted:

So might not be that cheap after all! What did u ask about the Turbo and what did they reply?

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Postby Noel » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:37 pm

I just asked as there was two kits listed which one was suitable for an auto? and what was the difference between the kits and how much increase did they give....?

here's the in-depth reply.... :P

Thanks for your enquiry, unfortunately the turbo kit is only for the manual vehicle as you can see here:
http://www.trust-power.com/overseas/eng ... 020301.htm

Apologies we couldn't help further.

Thanks


still though Dan if you price a supercharger from UK blitz Fensport it doesn't come with the intercooler either but it's over 3000 sterling :shock: :shock: :shock: ... nengun price is still good

ask Nengun about the ecu.... as fensport supply a blitz "access" ecu which is supposed to take care of the fueling...

Remember that supercharged 1998 altezza on carzone? the guy who bought that from fensport had to send it back to them shortly afterwards cos the s@3! petrol over here ment it wouldn't run right.... that been said afaik they did sort the mapping out, but i sincerely doubt that the 280 bhp it had in the UK is still being pushed out since they fixed it for Irish petrol...

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Dan
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Postby Dan » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:49 pm

Ye still a good price, i mailed Fensport, Nengun and Mr Singh! about the ECu still waiting to hear back from all. Mr Singh said that he wouldnt run a RS200 on 95Ron never mind a s/c RS200. Any idea how much extra it will cost to get the ECU sorted Noel?

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Noel
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Postby Noel » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:58 pm

Nah haven't a clue on price for that one..... :cry:

The more and more research you do the more negative the outcome.... :cry:

end of the day i need my car to be reliable so.... we'll see how you get on first... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Dan
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Postby Dan » Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:17 am

ye me too, i need my car for work and that cant afford to be without it because i fooked it up trying to get more out of it! Im in no rush with it! But it would nice to be known as the first supercharged Altezza( i think) made in Ireland!!

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elexes
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Postby elexes » Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:27 am

Dan wrote:ye me too, i need my car for work and that cant afford to be without it because i fooked it up trying to get more out of it! Im in no rush with it! But it would nice to be known as the first supercharged Altezza( i think) made in Ireland!!



like mines the first turbo'd :)

surely the sc would be told how to opperate by the ecu which would be told what type of fule to run . could be worth e-mailing tdi and prolex about the fuling issue

but since you live in a part of dub that is usually on fire and people get mugged whilst going to the letterbox did you consider going the na route with the na 2.2 stroker kit / final drive / flywhee / bigger brakes / bigger fule injectors bigger fule pump ecu . no need for camcon then cause afaik the duel vvti will be out the window then .it would be more insurance friendly

basicly build the same engine as the bctt lexus has

and turbo = forced induction :?:
if ive helped you in anyway vote for carlow to be the first tezzaworld drinking session

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Postby Robin H » Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:40 pm

Mr Singh is using a Apexi power FC for FI cars to run his set up
I know he had lots of probs with fueling on the standard ecu not even 20mpgs when driving about normally I think
when you get the kit from Blitz you send your ecu back to them so they can tweak it, don't know what they do, but it must be able to measure the boost some how

has anybody invited him over her ???

Dan
if you want to get more go out of your car there's no quick way
you must remember that all the parts on the car have been designed to work together, so as soon as you change something you will be putting another part of the car under more stress so that part will need replacing so on and so forth
it seems to me that you want your car to pick up quicker
there a few ways you can do this
1st way and cheapest get rid of as much weight out of the car as pos
fit a light weight flywheel if you can, this will allow the engine to rev quicker as you've not good lots of weight on the end of the crank to get spinning round
change the final drive of the car to allow for quicker acceleration

the thing is mechanical mods maybe quite costly when you start adding up all the parts and fitting, but all these mods would normally be done to a FI car to get the best out of it anyway

there's no quick easy way, unless you buy a car with it all ready done

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Postby Noel » Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:14 pm

from what Am told me.... he never sent his ECU to blitz to put in the triggering circuit, he also got the wrong Apexi controller at first, don't think it has ever gone smoothly to date...At present he's still having boost over 6000 revs problem...

Deffo puts me off getting one as he has been meticulous with everything relating to the initial installation and with repairing the car after that timing belt incident and it's still giving him grief :cry:

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elexes
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Postby elexes » Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:26 pm

if you ask him he will tell you that he would of gone turbo if he had the chance to change time
if ive helped you in anyway vote for carlow to be the first tezzaworld drinking session

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Postby Robin H » Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:13 pm

Noel wrote:from what Am told me.... he never sent his ECU to blitz to put in the triggering circuit, he also got the wrong Apexi controller at first, don't think it has ever gone smoothly to date...At present he's still having boost over 6000 revs problem...

Deffo puts me off getting one as he has been meticulous with everything relating to the initial installation and with repairing the car after that timing belt incident and it's still giving him grief :cry:


he got the NA power FC 1st by mistake and sold it
I don't think he's ever had the car set up properly as there's always been a prob of some sorts but this is most probably due to parts needing upgrading, his boost problem maybe due to injector size and not getting enough fuel

I think the only build that will be smooth is if your getting all the work done at once, and there will always be little things you've looked over or that crop up

I think he was unlucky with the timing belt, has there ever been a similar probs on the IS's with the TTE SC fitted

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endapender
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Postby endapender » Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:34 pm

I suppose every build is going to cause some grief along the with things that go wrong and stuff not being made right. We see it every day on other forums in project sections but that seems to be the joy and heartache of doing a build. It seems that weather its a turbo or supercharger a standalone ecu is prob the only option to get everything running right and there is always going to be extra things needed. Its prob best to have a good think about what you think you will need and talk to the pros alot.

you can technically call both a turbo and supercharger a compressor system cause thats all they are just run differently. another way to confuse the insurance company

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Dan
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Postby Dan » Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:31 pm

Reply i got from Nengun when i asked about the ECU:

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for your reply, we have added the Intercooler option to the website here:
http://www.nengun.com/blitz/compressor-system

Yes, these do come with a reprogrmmed ECU which should get you started without any problems. That said, you should try to find a mechanic/tuner experienced with these ECU's or at least with tuning these vehicles to ensure your vehicle is best setup for your performance gains, other modifications and local fuel mixtures.

Some good reading (though the Celica model) is available here:
http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0 ... ta_celica/

So thats seems to be one less problem. So im thinking the s/c and uprated clutch and things should be ok?? :shock:

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Postby Dizz » Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:36 pm

Has anyone asked properly about the Greddy turbo kit for MT? Whether anything's included or whether it's the very bare basics???


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