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intercoolr VS charge cooler

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cathal
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intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby cathal » Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:45 pm

as it says im just wondering whats advantages and disadvantages of each and which is the best on a turbo set up

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Tosh21
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Re: intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby Tosh21 » Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:44 pm

Charge coolers are usually more effective and they don't have to be mounted right at the front. The old subaru wrc cars ran charge coolers, we used to run it with dry ice. you can run it at some serious boost because the air going in was so cold, we ran 4 bar of boost and got stupid amounts of torque. Its way more expensive though and requires more pipe work, also needs another rad to cool the water going through it.

cathal
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Re: intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby cathal » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:53 pm

yes i know air will will be cooler also bypass coolant going into ur trottle body as thats only heating the air, i was told its less laggy then an intercooler set up?
just never seen one on an altezza before

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Re: intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby oaasport » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:07 am

A charge cooler does have an advatage on less lag as ypu can eliminate feet of piping. Less piping less lag. If you ar in a really hot climate i got news, one is not better than the other because of heat soak. However if you het creative with the charge cooler then you can infact get cooler air with more power. I have a buddy who has a 1200hp street mustang with a charge cooler. He sacrificed weight by building an insulated 5 gallon water box that he fills with dry ice on the outsides then inside he fills with regular ice and water. He also uses a mist under boost on the heat exchanger (radiator to cool chargecooler water) that helps keep the ice water cooler as it circulates. Granted it works but it also requires maintenance because you have to keep a supply of ice and water. This is not ideal for street per se, but he doesnt mind and we drove arpund in 115 -degree heat for 5 hours without having to add more ice

cathal
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Re: intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby cathal » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:33 pm

wel i live in ireland and we are very lucky if we see temps in the 25-30 area, so i dont have that problem i think?

ill have to make a custom set up as theres no kit made for my car so im just wondering is it really worth it an peoples ideas

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Tosh21
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Re: intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby Tosh21 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:47 am

ive never seen it done on an altezza, its quite a big job like oaasport says so not great for a street car. Personally the only reason i'd go that far myself is if i had some mega power and an intercooler just didnt cut it. You could go down the water injection route instead, bit less work and maintenance.

interesting thing about bypassing the throttle body, never heard or thought of that before has that been done? actually, why is it even there lol

cathal
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Re: intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby cathal » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:05 pm

car will be pushing a min of 400bhp and im just looking for the less lag as possible,

not sure why its there but ill let u know how i get on when i bypass it,

was thinking using old ps cooler as a water cooler that sprays water on rad to cool it if i was going wit charge cooler

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Re: intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby oaasport » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:50 am

No need for a chargecooler at 400bhp. Id be more looking into an r154 trans adaprer because at 400hp itsging to be a time bomb for the transmission. An air to air intercooler will work fine even at 750hp. If you are set on a charge cooler then look up setups in general that people have used. Yes a charge cooler will lag less. However the cost of a proper one can get you a twin scroll setup and that will make lag way less than a charge cooler will. Just saying

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Re: intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby cathal » Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:19 pm

oaasport wrote:No need for a chargecooler at 400bhp. Id be more looking into an r154 trans adaprer because at 400hp itsging to be a time bomb for the transmission. An air to air intercooler will work fine even at 750hp. If you are set on a charge cooler then look up setups in general that people have used. Yes a charge cooler will lag less. However the cost of a proper one can get you a twin scroll setup and that will make lag way less than a charge cooler will. Just saying


that is what i was thinking but buddy of mine says better of with a charge cooler hence why i made topic to see what peoples taughts and ideas are,
yes ive been told that but i dont know of where i can get an adapter for it? im also little worryed about been able to get the power from the tyres to the road,

is there a big lag difference between them? also what you mean by twin scroll set up?

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Re: intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby oaasport » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:06 am

Lag will depend on piping length. Longer pipe more lag. Cooler air, more power. The gst tine attack subaru runs an intwrcooler thats air to air and he pushes 750hp in 105 degree farenheit heat and it sets record! Proof an intercooler works at 1/4 the cost of a charge cooler. A twin scroll divides the turbine housing on the turbo. One side gets exhaust from cylinder 1&4 and the other gets 2&3s gassest. This makes yhe turbo pulse instead of getting mixed velocity. Type in superstreet twin scroll on google and theres a great article that explains it all! Go to www.full-race.com and look at the dyno of there twin scroll sr20det. It shows a larger turbo spoolibg and making more power acriss the whole rpm range than a smaller single scroll.as for trans adapters i cant help yoy as im in the usa. Mines be custom built at an exensive cost but a good machinist can make one for you.

cathal
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Re: intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby cathal » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:05 pm

oaasport wrote:Lag will depend on piping length. Longer pipe more lag. Cooler air, more power. The gst tine attack subaru runs an intwrcooler thats air to air and he pushes 750hp in 105 degree farenheit heat and it sets record! Proof an intercooler works at 1/4 the cost of a charge cooler. A twin scroll divides the turbine housing on the turbo. One side gets exhaust from cylinder 1&4 and the other gets 2&3s gassest. This makes yhe turbo pulse instead of getting mixed velocity. Type in superstreet twin scroll on google and theres a great article that explains it all! Go to http://www.full-race.com and look at the dyno of there twin scroll sr20det. It shows a larger turbo spoolibg and making more power acriss the whole rpm range than a smaller single scroll.as for trans adapters i cant help yoy as im in the usa. Mines be custom built at an exensive cost but a good machinist can make one for you.


ah yes i understand what you mean now, i belive the turbo i have in mind can have twin entry or single so im geussing i would have to get manifold custom made to suit? i dont know much so you get better pull from a twin scroll instead on single? as for the pipen theres not really a way i can make it shorter i can try do as short as possible, is it better to mount the turbo above or below the manifold??

yeah its something i would need to look into, do yeah just make something that bolts to engine that will allow the box to line up or is it a matter of changeing bellhouseing? also will the shaft line up and would the altezza clutch work? what about shifter will it line up? has anyone done this before?

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Re: intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby oaasport » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:42 pm

Look over the inteernet and read some on twin scroll as its way too much info for me to post lol. As far as setup you need both divided manifold and divided turbo to work properly with two wastegates. As for lag a twin scroll will lag way less than a single scroll, even lag less than a chargecooler on a single scroll.

As for the trans they will shave the bell housing anf make an adapter plate. Contact Beau Yates the australian drifter. He had an r154 behind his 3sge beams powered corolla and to my knowledge is the only one who has done it.

cathal
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Re: intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby cathal » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:07 pm

oaasport wrote:Look over the inteernet and read some on twin scroll as its way too much info for me to post lol. As far as setup you need both divided manifold and divided turbo to work properly with two wastegates. As for lag a twin scroll will lag way less than a single scroll, even lag less than a chargecooler on a single scroll.

As for the trans they will shave the bell housing anf make an adapter plate. Contact Beau Yates the australian drifter. He had an r154 behind his 3sge beams powered corolla and to my knowledge is the only one who has done it.


he on this form?

thanks for info buddy

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Tosh21
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Re: intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby Tosh21 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:40 pm

One thing ill say about the manifold is if you go twin scroll you will probably struggle to fit it in. I made a manifold for my single turbo with an external wastegate and even that was difficult to fit in. If i dont it again I could probably make it a bit better fitting but it is a bit of a nightmare to make it as free flowing as possible. I've had to move my battery, fusebox and tilt the ecu box a bit.

thats where my piping runs to keep it short. I forgot to take a pic after I made the rest of it but it basicaly goes straight in from there

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and intercooler mounting

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Id be looking at an exhaust housing with a vband exit too, makes it SO much easier. hopefully you can get some ideas and get something made up to suit the bits you have. there will be a fair bit of custom work involved for that kind of power

cathal
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Re: intercoolr VS charge cooler

Postby cathal » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:46 pm

Tosh21 wrote:One thing ill say about the manifold is if you go twin scroll you will probably struggle to fit it in. I made a manifold for my single turbo with an external wastegate and even that was difficult to fit in. If i dont it again I could probably make it a bit better fitting but it is a bit of a nightmare to make it as free flowing as possible. I've had to move my battery, fusebox and tilt the ecu box a bit.

thats where my piping runs to keep it short. I forgot to take a pic after I made the rest of it but it basicaly goes straight in from there

Image

and intercooler mounting

Image

Id be looking at an exhaust housing with a vband exit too, makes it SO much easier. hopefully you can get some ideas and get something made up to suit the bits you have. there will be a fair bit of custom work involved for that kind of power


have you any picture of the finished product? not been harsh im just neat freak looks a bit messy? that turbo u runing also what you done with power steering? is that not a very big intercooler? create more lag then needed?


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