Image Please bare with us while we are carrying out some much needed maintenance to the forum. New look coming soon!

TPS and Throttle body (need help with codes)

Post info/questions on engine mods and issues here
Cam2Tezza
Noob!
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 2:52 pm

TPS and Throttle body (need help with codes)

Postby Cam2Tezza » Sun May 17, 2015 3:28 pm

Hi, I've had my Tezza for about 6 weeks now, 00' manual RS200, 98 fuel, sparkies and oil just changed(5w-30) and I've cleaned the MAF and TB just for learning and what I'd hoped to be beneficial to the car. It was running fine before except:
-when in 1st gear at idle speed (800rpm) I give it gas and it lags for it feels like 2 seconds before it really picks up with a very subtle jerk
-aceelerates fine to 3.5k maybe 4k, then it feels very linear to 7k, cleaning MAF hasn't helped
-it takes a while to start, it's a bit worse now, didn't notice when I bought it
-after cleaning TB, the idle bounced around when I started it, 1.5k-2k constantly, so I reset the ecu but no luck, eventually I just drove it anyway and it settled down. It's got a high idle now at 1.2k. Need to get it down to pass emissions. I did not remove the TPS when I cleaned it, did so by spraying onto a rag and wiping the butterfly and TB walls, but I did give it a few sprays at the end, and I think I may have screwed up. I have code 41 now so that's TPS. Wanted to test the TPS but I didn't feel comfy sticking a paperclip in the back since the insulation looks quite thin and I wasn't sure it'd fit, so I stopped after testing the connector itself, which by the way reads 5.13v, not sure if I have a bad multimeter or if it's something else. I tried unplugging the TPS while running and it just stalled.

-extended cranking, bearable on first start of the day, embarassing when hot/warm but it does start on first turn of the key every time. I wanted to check fuel pressure but I don't know where I can do it since my gauge has 2 hoses to emulate a normal setup, so fuel hose goes to hose 1 with a metal fitting, and hose 2 replaces the fuel hose. I tried removing where it feeds to the fuel pulsation UFO but I'm guessing I need a tool for that? I read on another thread someone plugged their gauge at the end of the fuel rail, but I don't have that fitting, so I wanted to test it elsewhere, like at the dampener.

Well, my main priority would probably be to test and replace the TPS, Coolant temp sensor to see if it helps and if not I'd like to do a fuel pressure test, any help regarding how I can do it would be appreciated. Oh and again is the TPS available by itself or do I have to get the whole TB? Since on Toyodiy it only lists the TB.

Thanks again for all the help I can get :lol:
And sorry for the somewhat lengthy post
https://youtu.be/pX0BCvHNgY8
extended cranking when hot
Image
reads 5.13v , at the pin farthest to the right, saw some other Toyota TPS should read 5v on the other side of the connector :?
Image
do i need a tool to remove the fuel hose?
Last edited by Cam2Tezza on Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

Soiled
Altezza Guru
Posts: 705
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: TPS and extended cranking

Postby Soiled » Sun May 17, 2015 8:47 pm

TPS readings are in the other active post about low idle.

That is a crimped line so you'd have to cut and recrimp it... So either get a fitting to do it off the bung in the fuel rail or look at the other end by the fuel pump under the rear seat.

It can take awhile for your car to settle down after resetting the Ecu, so it may still.come down on its own.

As for the lag and the power feeling throughout the revs, the description seems accurate of the characteristics of this engine from standard. Dual mass flywheel, vvti and drive by wire throttle control all add to this.

As for your starting taking awhile it could just come down to a weak or dying battery.

User avatar
RS Tom-Hundred
Tezza Fanatic!
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:31 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: TPS and extended cranking

Postby RS Tom-Hundred » Mon May 18, 2015 4:41 pm

Soiled wrote:As for the lag and the power feeling throughout the revs, the description seems accurate of the characteristics of this engine from standard. Dual mass flywheel, vvti and drive by wire throttle control all add to this.


Really?! If anything, I would say mine accelerates fine to 3k then picks up a bit and then noticeably picks up with a big power surge at about 4.5k all through to 7.5k! Totally different to what was said above as "aceelerates fine to 3.5k maybe 4k, then it feels very linear to 7k, cleaning MAF hasn't helped"

Totally agree about the ECU reset, mine races at about 2k on idle and fluctautes a bit will driving until Ive used it for a bit and driven around. Then it alll goes back to normal. It has done this most times that I have had the battery disconnected tbh.

Cam2Tezza
Noob!
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: TPS and extended cranking

Postby Cam2Tezza » Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:22 pm

Ok so I've installed a new TPS and it's reading 0.78V with the throttle motor disconnected, key on ignition off. I reset the ecu lately and now the bouncing idle won't settle even after 200km of driving, it's really annoying at lights. I read somewhere to try unplugging MAF or TPS and that the ecu needs at least one to run, but unplugging either one for me it stalls.

I've noticed that while the idle is bouncing around that the throttle body, sounds like the butterfly is going crazy, but the tapping is not in sync with the bouncing but rythmic idle, for example idle goes vroom, vroom, vroom,vroom, the butterfly goes tap-tap, taptaptaptap, not the best description but hope you get the idea, so what I think, but not really understanding, is that maybe in the process of cleaning my TB I've damaged it? It's just I'm not sure what has been damaged. Maybe I'll put the old TPS back on and see if it stops the bouncing idle.

Also I'd like to add that while driving with the bouncing idle, when I'm coming to a stop, hitting the brakes will drop the idle to just under 1k while in neutral, not sure if it's on the verge of cutting out, but I feel like I lose all braking power, and a moment later idle will bounce from 800 to 2k , then 1.5-2k again and it will build brake power again.

Edit: more stuff to add, read about problems after cleaning TB and when I cleaned it, I was quite rough with it, jamming the butterfly open repeatedly with a cloth to clean it, so maybe I stripped the gears causing this to be happening?
Last edited by Cam2Tezza on Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

tdi-red di
Noob!
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:55 pm
Location: Connemara, Galway

Re: TPS and extended cranking

Postby tdi-red di » Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:40 pm

How did you check the Voltage on the TPS, Any pics or video..? I have similar issue and it needs to be adjusted..? My car also has very bad idle, usually on cold start like in the mornings it is really bad...:/
**** Looking for anyone who can program vw clocks, Galway preferably :) ****

Cam2Tezza
Noob!
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: TPS and extended cranking

Postby Cam2Tezza » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:16 am

I just stuck multimeter probes into the back of the ecu connector, B17 is main ground and B23 is tps primary, oddly for me I just turned the tps all the way clockwise and it read 0.78v. You can type altezza tps b23 in search engine and one of the results will have the picture of the connectors. I'm gonna open up my TB and check for stripped gears, and probably will need a new TB. :| what's your idle like?

oaasport
Trc On!
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: TPS and extended cranking

Postby oaasport » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:24 am

Ok hitting your brakes drops the idle down and feels like its gonna stall? I think your idle problem has nothing to do with electronics at all. Check all of the vacuum lines. If your losing breaking power and getting the engine jumping you have a vacuum leak thats severe. I was kinf at stalling in my old truck, all do to a severe vacuum leak.

Cam2Tezza
Noob!
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: TPS and extended cranking

Postby Cam2Tezza » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:40 am

Ok, removed the throttle body and had a look at the gears, they look good, no sign of wear on the teeth at all....back to square one i guess. Can someone tell me how many hoses are supposed to attach to the TB? I think i removed 3 when taking the TB off,not too sure now, 2 hoses have fluids probably coolant, 1 goes from TB to airbox, but inspecting the TB it looks like there is 1 more port that should have a hose connected to it? So because of a vacuum leak, when i unplug either the tps or MAF it stalls? Anyway I'll fiddle with it a bit more for now, thanks for the input.

By the way the idle I'm not sure it's a hunting idle, because it pulses abruptly at a steady pace like I'm revving the engine constantly, 1.5-2 or 2-2.5k like turn signals blinking would describe it pretty well i guess. Revving it higher will keep it steady. I drove it the first time it happened, the pulsing went away after a few km, would still pulse slightly when coming out of gear but stay steady for the most part after that, high idle though, lowest I've seen it was about 1.2k. Then I installed the new TPS and the pulsing won't go away. Stepping on the pedal it's like it's got no signal for about an inch, then when it gets the signal it's like VVTI just kicked in YO!!! so it's pretty harsh, though I attribute it to not adjusting the TPS properly, I left it at 0.80v without touching the butterfly and the plugs disconnected. Or am i supposed to fully close it the last few millimeters by hand then adjust it? If I slow down in gear and the revs go under say 1.3k it will accelerate by itself. Or I'm rolling down a slight slope smoothly and it will suddenly engine brake. So confused :?

One more thing, could a blown fuse, say ETCS cause this? Haven't checked yet but would like to know, thanks

Cam2Tezza
Noob!
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: TPS and Throttle body(forget extended cranking for now)

Postby Cam2Tezza » Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:27 am

Ok, been doing some reading and I'm going to check my coolant and top it off next time. Yesterday I dropped a bolt and was looking for it under the car, and I saw a puddle on the passenger/left side. I wasn't sure if it was fluid from the car because it did rain a bit earlier, so perhaps low coolant is causing the pulsing bouncing idle. I don't have overheating problems though(I think, since the temp gauge always maxes out just under halfway). I did notice some sounds inside the cabin before, with the AC turned off, at the time I thought it may be the AC actuator. Hoping this to be the cause because it is really getting annoying and I don't want to start it too many times until it gets fixed. The battery voltage is 12.24v now so I want to limit my starts. I also don't want to get a new TB which is going to cost me USD700.

Also read fuel pump problems could cause this as well, though my car revs to redline fine albeit lacking a bit of power. I think my FPR is bad leading to my starting problem, but 1 thing at a time so hope to sort out the idle issue first.

User avatar
Tosh21
Altezza Guru
Posts: 521
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:12 pm
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: TPS and Throttle body(forget extended cranking for now)

Postby Tosh21 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:44 pm

The tb coolant is to warm the air on really cold starts I think. It feeds into the big copper looking thing sticking out inside the body and returns out the bottom so you have 2 coolant lines to the tb and a tiny vac line behind/kinda on the side. Check tps by pushing the flap fully open then let it go into its natural closed position (engine off obviously) then adjust tps to suit. There is an idle adjuster screw but this should not have ever been touched which you can adjust, I don't know how it works with a fly by wire all working as when I've adjusted it it hasn't had an effect on idle. However when I had a manual throttle it did make a difference and that's how I set my idle and it does open the butterfly a bit.


Probably none of those things but that's my experience with these throttle bodies anyway!

Cam2Tezza
Noob!
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: TPS and Throttle body(forget extended cranking for now)

Postby Cam2Tezza » Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:43 pm

Thanks Tosh, I'm not sure how it works either, but the TB valve is held by 2 springs, you can push the valve close from its "closed" position, and the screw you were talking about I think adjusts how far you can push it by hand, so normally it wouldn't adjust the position of the valve at all I think, hence no effect on idle. I was told by my mechanic that I'd have to replace the whole Throttle Body, I'm just wondering what can go wrong on that unit that calls for a total replacement. I've got a new TPS which checks out fine, I checked the gears connected to the throttle valve and don't see wear at all, I'm about to test the resistance on the motor as well but I'm really leaning towards issues elsewhere, not the TB. At least, I have to try elsewhere before I fork out for an expensive part like that. Perhaps I'll get a video of the pulsing revs but the best description would be the revs go up and down like an ON/OFF switch, 1.5k is OFF and 2k is ON, and the speed of it doing that is almost like blinking turn signals. I'm 45 mins away from the car, and I don't go to it everyday so this process is taking a while, all i can try to do is gather as much info while I'm away, so every bit of info helps. Could a bad ecu do this? Don't have access to another one to swap out and check unless I get a used one for 200, used Power FCs cost about 500. But that's my mind straying from the path again.

User avatar
Tosh21
Altezza Guru
Posts: 521
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:12 pm
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: TPS and Throttle body(forget extended cranking for now)

Postby Tosh21 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:20 pm

Mine did that when I adjusted tps but it did settle after a few hours driving. The only other thing I can think of on the tb which could have something to do with it is the actual motor itself or the pedal position sensor. The grey plug on the top is for the motor which drives the gears (clutch magnetic circuit I think it's called) so check voltage on that see if it fluctuates, if it does then you know its the tb opening and closing rather than dodgy fuelling. Then you can start looking at why it would open and close like that and look into replacing just that part

Cam2Tezza
Noob!
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: TPS and Throttle body(forget extended cranking for now)

Postby Cam2Tezza » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:59 am

Another update, assembled the TB and airbox back on, TPS set to 0.79v that's the lowest I could get it. Started it, bouncing idle still there, ok, drove it, still losing braking power occasionally. Got on the highway, decided to floor it, and CEL + TRC OFF came on, and it accelerated on its own. I put it in neutral and it revs to 5K and holding steady. Panicking, I shut off the car and restarted it, CEL and TRC went off, didn't rev so high anymore but aforementioned symptoms remain. Sigh, I guess I'll take the plunge and replace the TB. So far I'm told it'll be a 45 day wait because they don't have any in stock. :|

Probably damaged the motor while jamming the butterfly open repeatedly with the key ON. I got weird resistance readings while testing it. So fingers crossed a new TB will end all this drama for me.

On a side note I opened the box above the Diagnosis box and there's nothing plugged in at "Fuel Pump". Is this normal?

Cam2Tezza
Noob!
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: TPS and Throttle body(forget extended cranking for now)

Postby Cam2Tezza » Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:02 am

Pulled codes this morning, it's a bit early for christmas:
Need help reading them cuz CEL is flashing kinda randomly, like it doesn't repeat 3 times, it just flashes codes 1 time and moves on. ABS and TRC, airbag flashing as well(not sure about the airbag).

http://youtu.be/wt8mgxUBWwc

User avatar
RS Tom-Hundred
Tezza Fanatic!
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:31 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: TPS and Throttle body (need help with codes)

Postby RS Tom-Hundred » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:21 pm

No that's right mate - its not random :) The ABS, TRC and Airbag all seem to have codes too as I think they usually either stay lit or flash at constant rate on mine (with no issues). I'll count them in a minute too but didnt want to confuse this post by adding them.

You have engine codes 19, 24 and 31 in there. Your video starts part way through the first code so if you skip it to the long gap at about 0:25-0:28 that is the start of the code sequence again and the codes then come through as:
1 flash (small gap) 9 flashes (bigger gap) 2 flashes (small gap) 4 flashes (bigger gap) 3 flashes (small gap) 1 flash. This is equal to 19, 24 and 31. Havent got the sheet on me but should be able to find it on here again and check what those mean.


Return to “Engine & Transmission section”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron