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EGT and WINJ

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Tosh21
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EGT and WINJ

Postby Tosh21 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:49 pm

Hopefully be getting the turbo fitted and mapped in the next couple of months, someone mentioned that fitting EGT sensors would be a good idea with AIT sensor and a WINJ system so i can have a super safe map and still make good power. Now I know the rods will not take huge power so i am aiming for about 260-280hp and similar torque (if the tuner can even limit power in such a way on a power fc?) The reason for EGT sensors was so that I could have one on each cylinder and know what each cylinder is doing so fuel can be adjusted to cool down a particular cylinder but then I thought, does the power fc even have that feature? I'ts a pretty basic ecu. The point of having a WINJ system was just to try regulate AIT so that if EGT starts to read high, I can inject water instead of bringing back the ignition timing so that there isn't a loss in power as the ecu tries to stop the engine knocking. That's just my 2p on it anyway, I don't know a huge deal on engine mapping and what ignition timing does etc.
It is a pretty dam hot engine, the exhaust gets incredibly hot even though it's still N/A so I am just a little concerned about engine temperatures. I think I would cry if i got to the end after all the hours i've spent fabbing and machining bits for it.

I will run an AIT temp anyway, probably just do an intercooler before and after temp instead of a single AIT

Soiled
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Re: EGT and WINJ

Postby Soiled » Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:03 pm

I personally think that is over complicating things for no gain.

Your tuner will have a wideband air/fuel meter plugged into your exhaust and an external knock sensor for tuning to figure out what's going on inside.

The Altezza intake plenum is an awesome design so you're very unlikely to get uneven air into each cylinder unlike a home made job.

Power is controlled via the amount of boost and timing you put in, if you tell the tuner to limit your power to a certain amount they can do that.

Your maf sensor already has a temp sensor in it, so if you do want to go down that track you'll only need one post intercooler.

The powerfc won't change the map to stop knocking, it will just give you a warning when knock is above a certain level. Your tuner should have it so that there is very little chance of knock (if you do get warnings, take note of when it's happening, load vs revs and ambient temp and take this back to the tuner to get more fuel added or timing pulled at the correct point in the map). It is essentially a dumb map.

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Tosh21
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Re: EGT and WINJ

Postby Tosh21 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:59 pm

Yea I kinda thought it would be pointless unless it's a full race engine. Just someone mentioned it and all the advantages of everything got me thinking. Thanks man, always know your stuff!

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Re: EGT and WINJ

Postby ESXTEZZ » Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:21 pm

It wont be the power that kills the rods, I ran 300whp on a stock internals without issues. Get a good tuner who is prepared to spend the time on the map.
The power fc doesn't have knock protection so ignition wont be pulled, it will pull timing based on intake temp and also add fuel.

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Tosh21
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Re: EGT and WINJ

Postby Tosh21 » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:56 am

300! wow I heard many people having issues with knock around the .7 bar and 300 hp range. Who mapped yours?

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Re: EGT and WINJ

Postby Soiled » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:57 am

You can knock at any power, that's more to do with octane rating of petrol, intake temp, timing and A/Rs. (piston design can come in to it too, but let's not worry about that :p)

Bigger turbos or superchargers can supply the same cfm of air but at a lower intake temperature so you can make safer power.

Also knock tends to happen in the mid range of revs in high load situations rather than in the top at peak hp.

300hp on the factory engine is awesome though!

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Re: EGT and WINJ

Postby ESXTEZZ » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:52 pm

I suppose the benefits of using a big centrifugal supercharger is the high cfm output and pregressive boost, whilst being a bit less stressful on the engine internals and drivetrain. But at the same time a big turbo would be producing a lot more power with no drag on the engine and lot more low to mid range torque.
I tuned my own car on stock internals, 300whp was @ 11/12 psi and with a 2.5" exhaust system butted to a FGK 4-1 header. The later tunes were done on the built motor by a friend of mine steve from http://maseengineering.com/, he usually comes over 3 or 4 times a year.
Like soiled said, bigger turbo = less heat + more cfm and less boost for the same power as a smaller unit, but the trade off is more lag.
We fitted a peak boost turbo kit with a HKS gt2835r to a standard Integra DC5 engine, that made 438 bhp @ 11.5 psi, that's the same compression as a manual altezza lump 11.5:1, the cars has now covered nearly 15k of hard miles since with the only issue being a split oil cooler rad. .

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Tosh21
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Re: EGT and WINJ

Postby Tosh21 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:36 pm

I'm limited to the Garrett TR30R as I designed everything around runing that turbo so changing for something else would be a huge job. Unless it can't be rebuilt, in which case It's back to the drawing board. Those figures are crazy! So is high levels of boost more likely to bend the rod than loads of hp?
I am a bit cautious about who maps it tbh. The engine the turbo came off was a 1.6 mini and cos of the regs the compressor is very small so it can't make much more than 300 bhp but i think the most they squeezed out was 320bhp and 600 odd nm at 1.5 bar. Ran antilag and spins at 160k so I think i will get very fast spool and it won't run out of puff at high revs although it might be close to overspeeding which is also a bit of a worry. My knowledge on tuning engines is really limited so I want to make sure the guy with the computer knows his stuff and I have a safe strong map

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Re: EGT and WINJ

Postby ESXTEZZ » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:13 pm

Do you have a compressor map for that turbo

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Tosh21
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Re: EGT and WINJ

Postby Tosh21 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:52 pm

afraid not. There are LOADS of variations of this turbo. I was thinking of asking owen development to have a look and give me some info but I don't think they will. I asked them if they can rebuild it ages ago and they said they don't do them anymore and were reluctant to even look at it.

What sorta info would a compressor map tell you? I've seen them before but makes no sense to me

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Re: EGT and WINJ

Postby tais300 » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:44 pm

It is not a matter of how much boost can rods take or how much power can i make on pump gas that destroys an engine. It mostly lies with how well it is tuned and a suitable charger for how the power is being made. Yes you can get a system fir individual cylinder tuning, but you pay the price because the system is ay more complex and plan on spending double for the tuning time. Worth it? All depends because tuners have squeezed upwatds of 100hp out of the systems with no further mods. A good tuner can make your engine last longer and maybe squeeze a little extra powerout of it in the process. Also get an engine management system that the tuner knows and has used. If he uses motec link and autronic dont expect him to be good at tuning an aem or haltech. Also DONT let him tell you hed like the job to add a new system to his skills unless a legal contract is in place (made this mistake, poor honda)


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