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MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

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peter0991
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MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby peter0991 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:46 pm

Hello good people,
I had my first MOT test today since ive bought the car. To my surprise it has failed. Some common thing that could be easily replaced, such as ball joint and brake pads. But what really got me worried is the fail on emissions. I will just list what the values were.
Fast Idle:
CO: 10.71%vol
HC: 265ppm
Lambda: 0.71

2nd Fast Idle
CO: 10.28%vol
HC: 310ppm
Lambda: 0.72

Natural Idle
CO: 6.10%

To begin with, I left the car at the MOT garage at 12 and the MOT was at 2pm. So it stood in the cold for 2 hours. The printout says that the engine warmed up to operational temperature, which is fair, but very likely the cat was still cold. I know that if you boot the car around before your MOT test, it really decreases the emission values. But surely it will not decrease it down to optimal values if my readings were that high?
Does it look like my car is overfuelling? What can be the cause of the problem?
Just to mention I have got an altezza with a greddy turbo kit. Maf was cleaned a few months ago.

Has anyone come across emission values that high before? I would greatly appreciate any help.

Thanks for your time
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todd
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Re: MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby todd » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:28 pm

Could just be your lamba is gubbed, quite common.

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peter0991
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Re: MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby peter0991 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:43 pm

So youre saying that the sensor gives a false reading so it is dumping more fuel in the engine? Wouldnt that cause rough idle or something like that?
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todd
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Re: MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby todd » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:57 pm

Pretty much, how is your MPG, fuel consumption going through the roof is a good sign of a faulty lamba

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peter0991
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Re: MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby peter0991 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:04 pm

Hmmm, now that you mention it... it has gone up in the past few months. I get about 400km per tank of fuel at the moment. Thats mainly motorway, a some odd bits of town. Also started popping quite a bit recently. So its definitely running rich then.
Still the engine pulls and revs very nicely, i always though that if there is a fueling problem then it would be very rough operation.
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todd
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Re: MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby todd » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:09 pm

Could also be the CAT, have a search round the forum, lots of posts related to the lamba.

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Re: MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby Damok » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:33 pm

It could be the lamba sensor, could be alot of things, when was the car last servied? What air filter are you running.
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Re: MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby miles » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:48 pm

Mine never got tested for emissions . garage said it was cos they didn't have it on there database, however i think they knew it would fail as its been de-catted and there abit more lenient with imports as the owner has a few.

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peter0991
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Re: MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby peter0991 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:59 pm

Serviced the car about 2 months ago. Ive got greddy airinx filter which was very well cleaned when i did the service.
I also noticed that the engine temperature written on the printout was 60, pretty sure that the operating temperature is around 90. Is that correct?
Im gettin really lost now, so far the conclusion i have made is that the lambda sensor is the only thing that can be responsible for such a high value of CO, its around 30 times higher than it should be. Has anyone had a value that high?
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Re: MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby tomo » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:59 pm

You're car is running pretty rich for some reason. To get the second fast idle test result you have too sit at 3000rpm for 3 mins so the car should have been hot enough.

There are multiple things that could make it run that rich so it's very hard, if not impossible to diagnose this without seeing the car personally and looking at it myself.

You say it's got a turbo kit? What management is it running? I would Reccomend taking it too a local tuner or something and getting someone that knows what they are doing to have a look. as it won't do you're engine any good running very rich. You may be lucky it may just be the lambda sensor but it's still worth getting someone to look at it.

miles wrote:Mine never got tested for emissions . garage said it was cos they didn't have it on there database, however i think they knew it would fail as its been de-catted and there abit more lenient with imports as the owner has a few.


This is a bit of a grey area with emissions on import cars, the mot manual says you have to test an import car according to its age BUT if a car fails the first fast idle test then you have to find and select he vehicle on the emissions computer before it will let you do a second fast idle test, and import cars eg;altezza aren't on the emissions computers so you're physically not able to select and thus not able to go through and do a second fast idle test and generate a pass/fail. So what most people do is just test it as a pre 92 non catalyst vehicle which the limits are a lot higher for (3.5%co and 1200ppm hydrocarbons).
Sorry about the long ass explanation, hope it makes sense.

If you hadn't guessed I'm an mot tester
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mlcoolj
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Re: MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby mlcoolj » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:05 am

What Tomo says.. Turbo'd engine running rich is asking for trouble, you could get detonation if I'm not mistaken, with a melt piston as the result... Get it to a tuner and let them check it out...
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Soiled
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Re: MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby Soiled » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:49 pm

Detonation is from running lean. Running rich actually helps avoid detonation as you get cooler chamber temps, but can lead to issues if left for a long period of time ie bore wash.

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mlcoolj
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Re: MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby mlcoolj » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:16 pm

ah look, I had it the other way around... to what sort of problems could it lead to?
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peter0991
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Re: MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby peter0991 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:28 pm

Its running an apexi power fc, which i believe was tuned in japan. Has had a few owners in UK before me and all their mot results were sound. I literally have no idea where i can take it around where i live. I am currently up in Ripley (Derbyshire) on work training so maybe there is someone around here i can see.
I dont believe it was always running that rich as i the last month the exhaust started sooting up the rear bumper, which has never happened before. What can cause this sudden change?
I just want to weigh the option of buying a new lambda sensor. Where can i get one from in UK?
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Soiled
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Re: MOT Fail - Very very very high CO levels

Postby Soiled » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:04 pm

Running rich can cause damage to your sensors, can cause back fires in your exhaust which can lead to melted cats, mufflers (Have destroyed the insides of a brand new muffler in a couple of months with backfires myself :( :( ) and bore wash which is where the excess fuel pushes the oil away causing a lack of lubricant. Not to mention you're obviously using more petrol than needed!!

Also to the OP, have you checked to make sure there isn't oil in your throttle body/intercooler piping (Comes from the breather that attaches to the intake) as this wouldn't be helping your case and is very common on turbod 3SGEs.

A cat not doing its job can also cause the black build up on your bumper you are talking about.


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