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Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:37 pm
by a2pen
Altezza's are not very good in this area as the double wishbone suspension does not have a castor adjuster, or space around components to get stupid amounts of lock.
Here are some ideas i have shortened knuckles, tried and tested works well but can we get more?
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When fitted the lead wheel has good lock and the caliper is just away from the shocker, BUT the opposite wheel has no lock really
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My thoughts are how can we improve the left wheel in the photo to look like this.
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Other drift cars move racks forward is that something we may be able to do, or parts like these
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Here is pictures under my car wheels hanging
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And here is a prototype of my steering arm/rca
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Re: Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:00 pm
by babyeater690
ye move rack forward and space out track rods will give you extra lock also a company in japan have made up hubs works well a lad up the north of ireland can do this amd move the rack for 200 euro for 67degree (i think) lock

Re: Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:38 pm
by NinjaPower
The shortened steering knuckles are the right idea, they look a bit bodged?!?lol Have you done any testing on them?
Do you have lock spacers fitted too?

The picture of e30 with mental lock is the wisefab kit by the looks of it.. It's fully awesome but tbh you don't need that much lock, it won't make you any faster... Daigo Saito only uses modified knuckles and Uras track rods that have 6mm machined off the end, on his D1/FormulaD cars and he usually wins, so you don't 'need' that much lock..

Your picture of the new knuckle is ok, they exist already exactly like you've designed, can't remember where iv seen them though.
If your getting them machined you need to make sure the tapered holes for the ball joints is spot on correct angle.

Regarding spacing the steering rack.. You've got the wrong end on the stick with WHY they do this..
Its not done to increase lock..
The reason it's done is to overcome the issues caused by going 'over centre'.. This is where the track rod goes all the way to its full throw and goes the other way, so that when you go to steer back the other way the track rod is effectively locked.
Google search 'Over Centre' and I'm sure you'll find a better explanation, probilly on driftworks.

All the kits like DW geomasters and wisefab kits alter all the mounting mounts and pivot points etc.. Clever stuff..
The geomasters are a copy of a discontinued part originally made by GP Sports Japan.. They went bust and DW got a pair and copied them..
The wisefab kits are mental.. They Completly replace the whole hub and subframe assembly.. Most of it is handmade and very high quality, Really is a work of art, but jeez does it cost...

Re: Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:43 pm
by sparkystav
Try contacting figs engineering in the US. He makes lots of trick stuff for the is300 chassis that could help.

Re: Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:45 pm
by NinjaPower
sparkystav wrote:Try contacting figs engineering in the US. He makes lots of trick stuff for the is300 chassis that could help.


Yeah he does make some nice parts :D

Re: Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:48 pm
by a2pen
NinjaPower wrote:The shortened steering knuckles are the right idea, they look a bit bodged?!?lol Have you done any testing on them?
Do you have lock spacers fitted too?

The picture of e30 with mental lock is the wisefab kit by the looks of it.. It's fully awesome but tbh you don't need that much lock, it won't make you any faster... Daigo Saito only uses modified knuckles on his D1, FormulaD cars and he usually wins, so you don't 'need' that much lock..

Your picture of the new knuckle is ok, they exist already exactly like you've designed, can't remember where iv seen them though.

Regarding spacing the steering rack.. You've got the wrong end on the stick with WHY they do this..
It doesn't give more lock just moving the rack.
The reason it's done is to overcome the issues caused by going 'over centre'.. This is where the track rod goes all the way to its full throw and goes the other way, so that when you go to steer back the other way the track rod is effectively locked.
Google search 'Over Centre' and I'm sure you'll find a better explanation, probilly on driftworks.

All the kits like DW geomasters and wisefab kits alter all the mounting mounts and pivot points etc.. Clever stuff..
The geomasters are a copy of a discontinued part originally made by GP Sports Japan.. They went bust and DW got a pair and copied them..
The wisefab kits are mental.. They Completly replace the whole hub and subframe assembly.. Most of it is handmade and very high quality, Really is a work of art, but jeez does it cost...


It was a bodge, it was purely to work out lengths so I could hand it over to my designer to cad draw.
I understand that there is parts already available but i'm on a budget so cost is a factor.
I have heard about over centering, but didn't relies moving the rack sorted it.
Yes I have stress tested these items and performed very good. I am about to have them made, but before going ahead just wanted to see
if it is possible to make them better.

Re: Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:33 am
by NinjaPower
Having those knuckles CNC'd, then having to find suitable ball joints and have them pressed in isn't going to be a cheap process. It'll be more than ordering a set of Hey Man Knuckles from RHDjapan.. Lol

The only advantage to your CNC'd one is that you can move the point of pivot, be careful with this and speak to people with vast Motorsport chassis tuning knowledge.. One of my close friends has worked for Maclaren for the last few years and has just been headhunter to go design suspension systems for JaguarLandRover(JLR), I'll run this by him and see what he thinks.. He's a drifter too :D

Re: Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:13 pm
by peter0991
Completely forgot to talk to you about this on Sunday, with all your fuel problems and everything :lol:

Guys at altezza-club.ru have been working on this for a while now, and since tezzas are big for drifting in Russia, they know what they are doing. So here are a few things I dug up.

The most basic type, also acts as an RCA spacer. Uses a stock lower ball joint that has been chopped.

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From what I have gathered, its a copy of C-one steering knuckles

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^^ The banana shape gives you more clearance between the arm and the knuckle.

Then you move on to something much more badass. As you mentioned earlier, to get the same lock on the trailing wheel as the lead wheel, you need to get rid of the ackermann angle. As you can imagine its pretty evil for street use :lol:

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As you can see, this also adds negative camber.

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And the lock you get with those straight knuckles and some spacers

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So as you can see.... as long as you have machining capabilities...youre sorted :wink: And no need for ball joint pressing

Re: Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:28 pm
by peter0991
Also have a look at this. I think its self explanatory and no translation required :lol:

http://altezza-club.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=71986

Extend the lower arm and switch left and right rod ends to give more clearance

Re: Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:37 pm
by twiglett-RS200
the third / second to last pictures are what i want.
who is up for learning russian and getting batch made up. :lol:

my wheels rub on the inside rear of the arch and the tension rods and they are spaced out so they equate to about 17x8 et23 on the front i have 215/45`s on them at the moment but 205/40`s will be going on the front soon.

all i have is Dales spacers and my lock is much more than standard.

why don`t more companies make geometry stuff for sxe10/ jzx chassis`??? there is a demand for it so surely one company making an affordable (cheap as possible) rca and knuckle set up would get a s@3! load of custom and soon make back any money that is outlaid for R&D.

Re: Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:51 pm
by peter0991
Haha. Well, I dont need to learn Russian :wink:

The drawings are there, and they have been tested and work great, all you need to do is find someone capable of making them and selling them to the masses..... :lol:

The last variant that you mentioned will make the car terrible to drive on the road and getting to tracks will not be fun....but its not impossible. But it will drive better sideways than in a straight line :lol:

Re: Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:08 am
by twiglett-RS200
does it say on that thread how much front camber those knuckles give? looks like quite a lot, about 30mm further out at the bottom balljoint.
iv`e driven a car with 5.5* of camber up front and apart from following grooves in the road like a scalectrix car it handles really well.

if only someone would make an rca/knuckle with slotted holes and bolts to adjust the position of the knuckle in relation to the bolts securing it to the hub. its a pretty simple idea but i doubt people would want an m6 bolt holding the suspension in line.


doesnt robin h work somewhere with the capabilities to machine ally?
get him on board and they will be selling like hotcakes :lol:

Re: Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:11 am
by peter0991
Its not the camber that you gotta worry about. Its the lack of ackermann angle in the steering with those straight knuckles. The wheels will scrub like mad when going around corners.

The camber you get

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I wouldnt mind using those knuckles, if its good enough for the abuse in the RDS, then its good enough for me :lol:

I am in the process of talking with the guys who made them, to see if they can post them out.

Re: Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:52 am
by mike_01
Don't figs make these ? was looking in his catalogue the other week and sure I seen some bottom ball joints, being figs there not going to be standard ones

Re: Altezza increased steering lock brain storming

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:38 am
by peter0991
Figs does make them, and yes, they do come with ball joints. But I just cant justify spending $500 + delivery on a part where a ball joint might fail and I will have to find a replacement joint and a place to press them.

Just for comparison, the knuckles above cost £100-140 and you use the stock knuckles with them.